Bruno's Blog: Ask Noah OFFICIALLY declares Claire Khaw's "Secular Koranism" NOT Noahide compliant

Update 01/29/20 - Chabad Declare Secular Koranism NOT Noahide Compliant! (Scroll to end)

I have written about Claire Khaw on this blog before (here) and have debated her on her governmental system "Secular Koranism" in regards to whether it is Noahide compliant or not (see first video below). The problem with Claire's Secular Koranism is that it does not forbid idolatry or blasphemy since there is no specific command to outlaw these in the Koran (she does not accept Hadiths or other non-Koranic texts), nor does Secular Koranism ask followers to believe in god, a requirement of the Noahide laws. The Noahide laws specifically state that idolatry and blasphemy must be forbidden for a legal or religious system to be Noahide compliant. Even though it is obvious that Secular Koranism does not meet the minimum requirements of the Noahide Law, Claire refused to give in and did nothing but throw these obvious arguments out the window.

Debate With Claire As To Whether
Secular Koranism is Noahide Compliant Or Not

This debate went so far that I decided to inquire at the website www.AskNoah.org. Ask Noah is the official representative of the authoritative book on Noahide Law, The Divine Code by Rabbi Moshe Weiner, which received official endorsement from the Chief Rabbinate of Israel (here). Here is what I wrote to Ask Noah:

Dear Ask Noah,

I am having a dispute with a women named Claire Khaw as to whether her ideology is Noahide compliant or not. Claire is not a Muslim proper but calls herself a "Secular Koranism" as she only allows the Koran to be used in developing Sharia rather then non-Koranic texts. According to Claire, you can be an agnostic and still follow her system. She also states that since the Koran does not call for the punishment of idolaters and blasphemers that she would allow this to be practiced openly without penalty. She would also not execute homosexuals but only give them lashes. If she does not ask her followers to believe in god, would allow open idolatry and blasphemy, and would not execute homosexuals, isn't her ideology of Secular Koranism NOT Noahide compliant. Please this is important as Claire is preaching that her system is in line with the Noahide Laws and is misleading people.

Thank You Vishnu (Vincent)

Here was Ask Noah's initial response which was sent by the Executive Director Michael Shulman:

If her "Secular Koranism" says that something is permissible in G-d's eyes that's forbidden by the specific 7 Noahide Laws, then it's not Noahide compliant. So if it says (for example) that homosexual male intercourse, or cursing the Tetragrammaton Name of G-d in Hebrew, or worshiping an idol, is actually permissible, then it is not Noahide compliant.

After this pronouncement I did a victory stream with youtube personality Dooovid to announce the Rabbis decree (below):

Victory Stream With Dooovid
Over The Rabbi's Pronouncement

During the victory stream Rabbi Shulman emailed me again with an additional paragraph which made it clear that Secular Koranism is NOT Noahide compliant:

The fact that "Secular Koranism" is clearly being promoted as "secular" seems to put it out of the category of the Noahide Code. The Noahide Code is given by G-d, with divine commandments, and therefore it's non-secular by definition.

After this, you will not believe, but Claire wrote a blog post stating that the Rabbi had done the very opposite and had declared Secular Koranism IS Noahide compliant. She twisted the Rabbi's words in one paragraph where he stated that an atheist who still follows the Noahide laws cannot be tried by a Noahide court. Claire twisted this to mean that a system like hers can be agnostic and still be Noahide compliant when this is not what the Rabbi said. He did not say the system is Noahide compliant but only that an atheist who follows the Noahide laws regardless cannot be executed. Claire Khaw took another paragraph which stated that a Noahide court need not punish transgressions with execution if a non-lethal punishment is sever enough to deter the public. Claire made this look like the Rabbi endorsed her reasoning that idolaters and blasphemers need not be punished, when the Rabbi made it clear they still need to be punished in some way for the system to be Noahide compliant:

https://radicalisedrabbi.blogspot.com/2020/01/rabbi-declares-secular-koranism-to-be.html

Sunday, 26 January 2020

Rabbi declares Secular Koranism to be Noahide-compliant

https://ask.fm/oneparty4all/answers/160235042433

https://www.noahide-academy.com/our_team/schulman

Claire, how can you say the Secular Koranism is Noahide compliant when, unlike mainstream Islam, you would allow open idolatry and blasphemy and would not execute homosexuals?

Because Islam based on the Koran has been regarded as Noahide-compliant for centuries.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-seven-noachide-laws

In view of the strict monotheism of Islam, Muslims were considered as Noachides whereas the status of Christians was a matter of debate.

Dr Michael Schulman, Executive Director of Ask Noah International and https://asknoah.org says:

If someone does not transgress any of the 7 Laws, but he does not believe in G-d, he is exempt from punishment by an earthly Noahide court.

If Secular Koranism says that the things [in the specific 7 Laws] are forbidden, and that they are punishable by a "Secular-Koranism" court, but only by a punishment that is lighter than execution, [then Secular Koranism] is compliant [if the specified punishment is a real deterrent].

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=15
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=16
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=24&verse=2

Due to her obvious lies and misrepresentation, Rabbi Shulman, executive director of Ask Noah, wrote an official open letter to Claire which was posted on the Ask Noah website. Here is what the Rabbi said:

https://asknoah.org/wp-content/uploads/rebuttal-of-claims-that-secular-koranism-is-noahide-compliant.pdf

B”H Globally promoting and teaching the 7 Laws of Noah - the Moral Code to unite all Mankind

1 Shevat 5780 / 27 January 20′20

Open letter to Claire Khaw (C.K.) and https://radicalisedrabbi.blogspot.com/

I write in response to C.K.’s misrepresentation of my position about her concept of “Secular Koranism,” on her web page https://radicalisedrabbi.blogspot.com/2020/01/rabbi-declares-secular-koranism-to-be.html This response is posted at this URL: https://asknoah.org/wp-content/uploads/rebuttal-of-claims-that-secular-koranism-is-noahide-compliant.pdf

The following are quotes from my statements in recent emails to her, with clarifications added in brackets:

1. On 27 January 20′20:

“...the web site https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ does not represent the Torah law” [as to whether believers in any non-Torah religion are considered or regarded as Noahides].

[It is a project of AICE: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/about-aice. Quoting from that page:]

“The American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise (AICE) was established in 1993 as a nonprofit and nonpartisan organization to strengthen the U.S.-Israel relationship by emphasizing the fundamentals of the alliance — the values our nations share.”

“Here is a correct restatement of those issues, in the view of Torah law: ‘In the view of the strict monotheism of Islam, Muslims were considered as non-idolaters...’ ”

2. On 26 January 20′20, I wrote this conditional statement:

“If Secular Koranism says that the things [in the specific 7 Laws] are forbidden, and that they are punishable by a ‘Secular-Koranism’ court, but only by a punishment that is lighter than execution, [then Secular Koranism] is compliant [if the specified punishment is a real deterrent]. If a court system [such as proposed in Secular Koranism] only punishes for transgressions of some of the 7 Laws, but not others ... then it [the court system] is in partial compliance [with the Noahide commandment to establish courts of law], but not full compliance.”

C.K. then responded in her reply:

“The Quran admonishes blasphemy, but does not specify any worldly punishment for blasphemy.”

To which I responded on 27 January 20′20:

“That makes it [the Quran and Secular Koranism] not Noahide compliant, in regard to the Torahbased definition of the capital sin of blasphemy [i.e. speaking a curse against G-d, using His most holy Name in Hebrew]”

Conclusions: C.K. has misrepresented my position. Secular Koranism fully exempts some violations of the 7 Noahide Commandments from liability to any worldly punishment. That alone makes it not compliant with the Noahide Code, even if its courts are in partial compliance. And the fact that Secular Koranism is clearly being promoted as “secular” puts it out of the category of the Noahide Code. The Noahide Laws are given by G-d as divine commands within the Torah. Authentic Noahide observance is therefore not secular, and is based on the complete truth of the Chumash being G-d’s word given through Moses.

Dr. Michael Schulman
Executive Director, Ask Noah International and Asknoah.org

So the executive director of Ask Noah, which officially represents the text "The Divine Code" with its officially endorsement by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel has officially declared Secular Kornism to be NOT Noahide compliant and has called out Claire on her lies!

UPDATES
01/29/20
Chabad.org declares Secular Koranism NOT Noahide Compliant

From: Lazer Danzinger | Chabad.org <mail_co5757179_4585054@chabad.org>Date: Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 11:38 AM
Subject: Chabad.org: Feedback { Ref. No. 5005434 }
To: justanotherhindu@gmail.com <justanotherhindu@gmail.com>

Hi,
I am in dialogue with Claire presently. If you have a question, please feel free to ask. Noahism is definitely predicated on the affirmation of the belief of God. Idolatry and cursing of God are clearly not allowed.

Let me know if this helps.
Lazer---- Rabbi Lazer Danzinger for Chabad.org

3 comments:

Claire KhawJanuary 28, 2020 at 12:28 PM
Rabbi Schulman says "That makes the Quran and Secular Koranism not Noahide-compliant."

This is not surprising because if you are Chabad promoting Jew-administered Noahidism for gentiles, you must already think that Islam - which is based on the Koran - is not good enough.

As I see it, Judaism and Islam are complementary in that the Torah is for Jews and the Koran for gentiles. Unlike the Torahn and Koran which are believed by Jews and Muslims to be the Word of God, not even Christians are claiming that the New Testament was the Word of God. As we know, it was written by some guys called Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc. Since Christianity is ipso facto idolatrous in the worst possible way - it is hard to think of exceeding the blasphemy of worshiping an executed revolutionary as the co-equal of the supreme and eternal Abrahamic God - it drops out of the picture leaving Islam the only team to join if you want to worship the Abrahamic God without being guilty of idolatry.

It seem the late Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh whose idea it was in the 1860s to devise a Jew-administered religion for gentiles had some rather eccentric. His Wikipedia entry states:

"He claimed that Christianity is too monotheistic in comparison with the Kabbalah which views all pagan deities in their essence as partial manifestations or faces of the Absolute. Similarly, Benamozegh criticized the Christian view of Jesus as incarnated God on monistic or panentheistic grounds. According to Benamozegh's Kabbalistic view, the entire world is an incarnation of Shechina, the feminine aspect of Divinity. He believed that Hinduism is closer in this respect to mystical Judaism than Christianity."

His declaration of faith as an Italian Jew would doubtless be regarded as blasphemy and idolatry attracting the punishment of stoning, for it was as follows:

"O Israelites, that you will always love Italy, that you will love her with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind."

If Spinoza was so horribly cursed for confusing the Universe with God, then all the more would Rabbi Benamozegh if he had lived in the same time and place as Spinoza.

The point is that we cannot expect Chabad to be enthusiastically acknowledging Secular Koranism over their own Jew-administered Noahidism which they have been promoting since the 1860s.

The fact that Rabbi Benamozegh said idolatrous things whose punishment would attract the death penalty in a Torah theocracy would tend to discredit his idea of Jews devising a Jew-administered Noahidism for gentiles.

There are also the practicalities of selling it to gentiles. What kind of gentile would have his religion administered by Jews when he could avail himself of Islam? I think it would be a dim and Islamophobic kind of gentile tending to idolise Jews who would go for this sort of thing.

Now that I have demonstrated how easy it is for rabbis and gentiles to fall into idolatry, it is easy to justify not having a formal punishment, as the Koran does not, other than admonishing idolaters from time to time.

Finally, Jews and gentiles should not idolise their hatred and fear of Muslims and Islam to the extent of ignoring their own rules. I see no reason why Jews cannot simply promote Islam as a suitably Noahide religion other than the one of not wishing to antagonise Christian American Zionists. However, if they settled their territorial dispute with their neighbours, then all should be well again, and Jews will finally be able to speak the truth about idolatrous Christianity without fear or favour.

I am certain Israel adopting Secular Koranism (which is just another School of Sharia) would mollify Muslims everywhere and create an atmosphere of keen interest in what kind of job Jews make of interpreting and applying Secular Koranism. Nothing in Secular Koranism (which is based on the Koran) should offend a reasonable Jew, I like to think. If only the Chabad rabbis would read it!

Tuesday, January 28, 2020

Ask Noah OFFICIALLY declares Claire Khaw's "Secular Koranism" NOT Noahide compliant

Sunday, 26 January 2020

Rabbi declares Secular Koranism to be Noahide-compliant

3 comments: